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 by Syp, Level 43
Last updated at June 21, 2008, 4:16 pm
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Richard Bartle, the designer of the first MUD and also the Bartle test I talked about last week, spent some time talking about World of Warcraft (which he grudgingly plays) over at Massively. He also had this profound statement about WAR:"I've already played Warhammer. It was called World of Warcraft."
Now, I don't know the guy personally, but that's like ten kinds of stupidity in two sentences from a guy who is one of the ancestors of the modern MMO scene. You've already played Warhammer? So, you're in the beta? No? Oh! Sorry, my mistake! You simply played another game and made a gross assumption that the gameplay, visuals and features of one title are virtually identical to another!
So, by that logic, I've already met you, Mr. Bartle, because I've met the guy living next door to me. You both have the same basic features and underlying mechanics, right? Same-same.
Sheesh. You think that a Ph.D. would think before he passed gross judgment like that.
Update: Mr. Bartle responded in the comments section to clear up the context behind the remark.
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27 comments
br3ntbr0 Jun 21, 2008 at 4:24 pm
+1 votes
I 100% agree, apparently this person is out of touch with the current MMOG landscape if he things such an assumption is anywhere close to correct. WoW and WAR share stylized graphics, high fantasy setting and a few other MMOG standards like UI elements, etc. After that, the similarities end as far as I can tell. Everything I've read has lead me to believe that it has a PVP centric focus, completely opposite to WoW's PVE focus...opposites. This guy lost all credibility on that statement as far as I'm concerned.
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Matt Graham Jun 21, 2008 at 4:59 pm
+1 votes
It's so odd that the "creator of MMOs" is now one of the biggest haters. >.>
spinks Jun 21, 2008 at 5:03 pm
+1 votes
He seemed so grumpy in that interview. I wish Michael Zenke had been able to nudge him a bit further on comments like 'no MMORPG is fun' to see what he meant by that. He doesn't show much understanding about why these games are so popular if they aren't fun, and I'd have called him on that.
I do think the guy has interesting things to say (I thought all his suggestions for WoW were solid) but man, that was a dreadful interview.
And yes, a game designer should be better informed about the new stuff coming out and what it's all about than he sounded there. Like I say, I find it frustrating because I'd like to talk to him myself about MUDs and MMORPGs :P
I do think the guy has interesting things to say (I thought all his suggestions for WoW were solid) but man, that was a dreadful interview.
And yes, a game designer should be better informed about the new stuff coming out and what it's all about than he sounded there. Like I say, I find it frustrating because I'd like to talk to him myself about MUDs and MMORPGs :P
RJO Jun 21, 2008 at 5:21 pm
+1 votes
Looking at some of his interviews and what not lately I'm pretty sure he's lost it...
unwise Jun 21, 2008 at 5:21 pm
+1 votes
Yes, and the only reason he levelled 3 characters to level 70 in WoW was for research, and he found it so labourious that he's planning on doing it all again for WotLK. Riiight.
arbitrary Jun 21, 2008 at 5:31 pm
+1 votes
I thought the whole interview was really quite pitiful. He really came across as an arrogant prig. The fact he said no MMO could be fun was doubly strange.. so don't play them dude, you obviously aren't teaching anyone anything crucial about them anyway ;p
He also mentioned how he's a developer at least once per paragraph..
He also mentioned how he's a developer at least once per paragraph..
Andrew Jun 21, 2008 at 5:37 pm
+1 votes
So he doesn't "play" games, yet he leveled 3 characters in WoW to 70. For me. Gee, thanks Richard Bartle!
I actually PLAYED the game for 3 years and I only had 2 70s. Good thing I wasn't playing for "credentials" and just to have fun. Oh wait, no MMO's going to be fun.
He sounds like one of those old washed-up rock stars who used to be cutting edge 30 years ago, but are so out of step with the times that all they can do is slag off all the current relevant bands and wax nostalgic about how things "used to be so much better" out of a mixture of jealousy and delusions of grandeur and just end up sounding completely clueless.
Oh, and is he a designer? Because I'm not sure if he mentioned that.
I actually PLAYED the game for 3 years and I only had 2 70s. Good thing I wasn't playing for "credentials" and just to have fun. Oh wait, no MMO's going to be fun.
He sounds like one of those old washed-up rock stars who used to be cutting edge 30 years ago, but are so out of step with the times that all they can do is slag off all the current relevant bands and wax nostalgic about how things "used to be so much better" out of a mixture of jealousy and delusions of grandeur and just end up sounding completely clueless.
Oh, and is he a designer? Because I'm not sure if he mentioned that.
The Claw Jun 21, 2008 at 5:55 pm
+1 votes
To be honest, we're lucky this wanker didn't say "Played Warhammer? I wrote it, back in 1978, and I called it MUD."
Syp Jun 21, 2008 at 6:29 pm
+1 votes
I think you hit the nail on the head Andrew about the rock star comment. It's too bad he couldn't be more supportive of how this genre has developed.
Anonymous Coward Jun 21, 2008 at 7:06 pm
+1 votes
I'm in the Warhammer beta and while I'm obviously under NDA, I just have to say that Bartle is just showing his ignorance with that comment.
And yeah, I too think the rock start analogy is spot on.
And yeah, I too think the rock start analogy is spot on.
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