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by Syp, Level 52
Last updated at March 17, 2009, 10:42 am
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A while back on WAAAGH!, I talked about quest text and how it's trivially easy to skip over it. I mean, we all have great intentions of reading it, right? And then what happens? You start to realize that it's one of about eight template quests that's just getting a new literary paintjob -- yet another reason to go kill ten foozles or collect five whatsits or escort Suicidal D. Lemming from point A to B. We become conditioned to skipping right over that lightly-colored "flavor" quest to the rewards, click accept, and look for the red splotchies. Congrats! Now we're more efficient with our time, and it only cost us the soul of the game!As I argued before, I don't think the blame should be put on the shoulders of the players for this, the loss of the game's story and lore. People have good intentions, but we're given no great reason to read the quest story because (a) it usually contains no instructions how to complete the quest that the objectives and red splotchy info doesn't show, (b) we're always accepting multiple quests and usually have a hard time keeping track of what we're doing and why, and (c) MMOs everywhere have fallen into a fallacy that by providing a chunk of exposition up front, an odd job in the middle, and a rushed conclusion at the end qualifies as a "story". In my opinion, the story should be what's happening as you're doing the quest, something that unfolds as your actions push it forward. Once in a while we bump into quests like this, multi-stage things (and some PQs) that have scripted events (visual or verbal) that keep the story fresh. And those are the ones that tend to pull us into the lore of the game.
I've always felt bad talking about this, because I know there are quest writers out there who work incredibly hard in not only coming up with the 1,000,000th reason why you should go out and commit limited genocide against Beastmen, but also have to pour through loads of source lore books to keep the story in line with the Warhammer world. It's as if someone spent painstaking hours drawing and painting a sheet of paper to wrap a gift, only to see you tear through it without a pause for artistic consideration.
Anyway, pushing past all this, the next stage of this line of thought is -- if we're not getting the lore of the game through the quest text, for the most part, where does it come from? We have this huge blank gap between our characters and the world in terms of where they fit in -- what's the motivation behind their questing, why should they be killing everything in sight, what's the meaning behind this faction, etc.? For some folks, they just don't care about this; they kill because it's a game, and they don't need a motivation to go beat something up. They just do. But I operate under the theory that there's a third subset of players, ones that don't immerse themselves in the proper lore as given to us through the Tome and quest text, and not ones that ignore it completely to view this as another beat-em-up brawl with no greater meaning.
I think the third subset, of which I belong, are folks who make up the lore as they go along. We used to be very good at that as children, if you can cast your mind back to those halcyon days of apple juice and nap time. Kids' imaginations may not be the deepest in the world, but they are the least inhibited -- and kids love to engage the world around them by making up stories. Just watch a child at play with toys, like cars or dolls or action figures. Their fun comes more from the imaginary situations that they create using those toys than what the toys can physically do. They're presented with objects and a large gap of lore, and they just shrug and dive right in, filling in the blank space with their own tale.
Do we do this? I know I do. I am by far not the leading expert on Warhammer lore, and while I might be able to hold my own by now in very limited trivia contests, most of the time I wander around just filling in the world with my own story. When Order takes the dwarf cannon BO in T1, I stand up there and repeatedly click on the cannons to get them to fire, imagining that I'm scaring off a horde that might otherwise sweep up over this place. When I dive into a crypt, I'm sure it has some significant Warhammer lore attached to it, but I am ignorant, so I let my mind fill in the blanks and transform the place into my own personal haunted house. I think of Nurglings as Gremlins (never feed them after midnight) and unicorns as the most hated species in the land, and if Professor Green Circle wants me to go kill a bunch of guys, I just assume it's because he heard I was a one-man killing machine and it was either going to be them or him that I wiped from this planet.
Of course, maybe I'm just me and this is a sign of onsetting insanity.

64 comments
girlirl Mar 17, 2009 at 11:28 am
+1 votes
"and if Professor Green Circle wants me to go kill a bunch of guys, I just assume it's because he heard I was a one-man killing machine and it was either going to be them or him that I wiped from this planet."
This is excellent.
This is excellent.
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+1 votes
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Inquisitor_Goody Mar 17, 2009 at 12:21 pm
+1 votes
A really interesting read.
For me it's different, I've played warhammer since I was about 11 (a long time ago) I've collected the armies fought the battles, read the army books, (containg background and the information and capabilities of the various units, swordmasters, ironbreakers, black orcs, chosen chaos warriors... see a pattern?) I've read the novels, I've even player the roleplaying game with my friends. To me the Lore in Warhammer is obvious, when I see a choas wizard surrounded by daemons I know I need to kill him and them or the poor little children of the empire are going to die. (lol)
It's strange but to see it all in 3D for me is a very cool thing and to be able to imerse myself in that world is amazing. I undersand why the city of Prag is overrun by the denizens of Chaos, I don't get why you cans ee the bright collage in altdorf as it exists on a different plane of existence( One of the 2 collages of magic that do).
I'm not saying this to boast just to put a different spin on it. I care about the lore because I love the lore and background of Warhammer it is rich in detail and darkness. the good guy is never all that good the evil guys are usually pretty damn evil but for me and those other players that have a background in warhammer I think the lore is one of the most important things and Mythic along with the mighty Games Workshop have really worked hard to get the IP right for the people like me and them that care about it.......
For me it's different, I've played warhammer since I was about 11 (a long time ago) I've collected the armies fought the battles, read the army books, (containg background and the information and capabilities of the various units, swordmasters, ironbreakers, black orcs, chosen chaos warriors... see a pattern?) I've read the novels, I've even player the roleplaying game with my friends. To me the Lore in Warhammer is obvious, when I see a choas wizard surrounded by daemons I know I need to kill him and them or the poor little children of the empire are going to die. (lol)
It's strange but to see it all in 3D for me is a very cool thing and to be able to imerse myself in that world is amazing. I undersand why the city of Prag is overrun by the denizens of Chaos, I don't get why you cans ee the bright collage in altdorf as it exists on a different plane of existence( One of the 2 collages of magic that do).
I'm not saying this to boast just to put a different spin on it. I care about the lore because I love the lore and background of Warhammer it is rich in detail and darkness. the good guy is never all that good the evil guys are usually pretty damn evil but for me and those other players that have a background in warhammer I think the lore is one of the most important things and Mythic along with the mighty Games Workshop have really worked hard to get the IP right for the people like me and them that care about it.......
rummy Mar 17, 2009 at 2:23 pm
+1 votes
Nice Post. I am one of the few who think that PVE should only be public quests, lairs, and dungeons. I'll never forget how immersive preview weekend and open beta was when we were all doing public quests.
GregMoran Mar 17, 2009 at 3:05 pm
+2 votes
I'm always looking at the lore of a game. Warhammer is WAY more refreshing lore-wise than some other games I've mentioned in the past (rhymes with cow).
A lot of the times, I do end up grabbing a quest and quickly look for the red blotch on my map. I've found more and more though, especially now with alts and on larger quest chains, I am reading the page or two of text in the Tome. Ironically enough, there's a fair bit of humour and wordplay in the quest text that you do have to truly appreciate.
There are some quest chains in particular that are great stories (like The Greater of Two Evils in Troll Country or A Son's Sacrifice in Nordland) that are brilliant stories and deserve to be played all the way through.
Public Quests IMO are actually quests without the lore. They're a kill-fest for the sake of quick XP and rewards. I still play them, but in the end, I prefer the traditional PVE quests purely for the story quality to them.
A lot of the times, I do end up grabbing a quest and quickly look for the red blotch on my map. I've found more and more though, especially now with alts and on larger quest chains, I am reading the page or two of text in the Tome. Ironically enough, there's a fair bit of humour and wordplay in the quest text that you do have to truly appreciate.
There are some quest chains in particular that are great stories (like The Greater of Two Evils in Troll Country or A Son's Sacrifice in Nordland) that are brilliant stories and deserve to be played all the way through.
Public Quests IMO are actually quests without the lore. They're a kill-fest for the sake of quick XP and rewards. I still play them, but in the end, I prefer the traditional PVE quests purely for the story quality to them.
Hiryu02 Mar 17, 2009 at 3:40 pm
+1 votes
I always try to read all the quest text, especially if it is the first time I've done a quest. However, sometimes there are so many steps to the quests, especially the epic lines, that sometimes I click through without reading.
Which is a shame really, I'm a huge lore junkie most of the time. I think that some of the quest content really needs more polish. A recent example is when I was in the Marshes of Madness, and I had a quest to use a "Runic Ward" near a certain pillar surrounded by undead. I fight my way to the pillar, rightclick on the item in my inventory, and I get the "quest complete" sound and text, but nothing happens otherwise. No graphical effect, no quest emote, nothing.
Now the runic ward was supposed to fail, but I couldn't tell that without looking in my tome. Now, if there had been say, a graphic effect, or the sound of something shattering, I would have known immediately the item broke, and it would make sense that I had to go back and report. Something to that end.
Anyway, I love the lore, lore is what got me into Warhammer. I wish they buffed up the quests a bit more, not make them longer or anything, but they need to present you with more feedback as you progress. On a slightly related topic, I just did my first book review on my blog, I hope you find the time to check it out, Syp.
Hiryu02
GnM
Which is a shame really, I'm a huge lore junkie most of the time. I think that some of the quest content really needs more polish. A recent example is when I was in the Marshes of Madness, and I had a quest to use a "Runic Ward" near a certain pillar surrounded by undead. I fight my way to the pillar, rightclick on the item in my inventory, and I get the "quest complete" sound and text, but nothing happens otherwise. No graphical effect, no quest emote, nothing.
Now the runic ward was supposed to fail, but I couldn't tell that without looking in my tome. Now, if there had been say, a graphic effect, or the sound of something shattering, I would have known immediately the item broke, and it would make sense that I had to go back and report. Something to that end.
Anyway, I love the lore, lore is what got me into Warhammer. I wish they buffed up the quests a bit more, not make them longer or anything, but they need to present you with more feedback as you progress. On a slightly related topic, I just did my first book review on my blog, I hope you find the time to check it out, Syp.
Hiryu02
GnM
kashak Mar 17, 2009 at 6:14 pm
+1 votes
I blame myself if I don't read the text. Not others.
When I do read it Im usually pleasantly suprised at its quality.
When I do read it Im usually pleasantly suprised at its quality.
sharon Mar 17, 2009 at 7:32 pm
+1 votes
I only got into the lore through playing WAR. While I'd hung out at Game Stop occasionally, it was really only to check out the cool little figures. That store closed awhile back... so sad. I'd have a whole new appreciation for it now! Reading the quest text got me buying books so I could learn more, since the quest text just hints at a larger story. Thankfully, the quests clearly aren't written by the same people who write the loading screen tips, a few of which really irritate me. 
Athekkhar Mar 19, 2009 at 3:46 pm
+1 votes
Hey Syp, great post. Just put up my thoughts on the matter if anyones intersted: http://thetankwall.blogspot.com.
aaaaaaa Feb 24, 2010 at 3:29 am
+1 votes
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