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by Syp, Level 43
Last updated at October 8, 2008, 10:35 am
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In a way, I guess I have to thank Mythic for yanking four classes from the game back in July, because it's given us something to endlessly speculate upon until we hear something official. We do know that four careers will be re-introduced to the game, and that they'll fill the roles that were left void (two tanks, two melee dpsers). What we don't know is whether or not the four careers will be the cut Knight of the Blazing Sun (KOBS), Hammerer, Choppa and Black Guard -- or whether Mythic is taking their core mechanics and working them into a new career entirely.We've speculated on the demand for and popularity of the possibility of the Dwarf Slayer to replace the Hammerer as the melee DPSer of that race. I think there's a good chance that the Choppa and Black Guard will return as is, just retooled, because the Choppa was incredibly popular (which seems to go against it not playing well from Mythic's end) and the Black Guard definitely offers a sinister-looking tank that Dark Elf players have been salivating after.
Okay, it does seem to be a bit unfair to pick on the feathers, since this brings us a pretty unique look for tanks, kind of a Spanish conquistador thing. But the career as a whole didn't hit the "oh WOW" factor back in beta, which makes me wonder -- what if we're going to see a different knight entirely?
What someone clued me in to last week was that the Empire actually has four types of major knightly orders, of which the Knights of the Blazing Sun is just one, and one of the smaller orders at that. You also have:
- Knights Panther - a major order of knights who are quite fanatical in not allowing any servant of Chaos to live. Their look, according to Wikipedia: "the Knights still trim their clothes and crests with whatever exotic spotted or striped fur they can obtain. Their shields carry the emblem of their order, the fabled spotted panther of Araby."
- Knights of the White Wolf - the other major order, they fight with calvary warhammers and follow the god of winter, wolves and war.
- The Reiksguard - the bodyguards and personal regiment of Emperor Franz, they probably fit best in with your average mental image of a pristine, armored medieval knight.
Not to mention that there's at least a dozen other minor knightly orders of the Empire, all waiting for their turn to bash a few good heads in.
So the question is, why did Mythic pick the Knights of the Blazing Sun in the first place, and if they're not going to be coming back, which of the other knightly orders might they choose?
My gut, expansive and wise that it is, was instantly attracted to the White Wolves. Perhaps it's because I read too much George R.R. Martin, but I'd wager that the theme of that order would resonate with more MMO players than the yellow/orange/feathery KOBS would. The fact that they mostly fight with warhammers might be a stroke against them (as that might seem too similar to Warrior Priests), but... yeah, I can see people liking the concept.
What say you, Mr. Internet? If not the KOBS, who should step up to take their place?

27 comments
AW Oct 8, 2008 at 10:50 am
+1 votes
It's a great point about Knights of the White Wolf. They could certainly give a different flavor and would be another "cool" looking class that might attract people like the Chosen and Black orc. They could look much more mean and gritty than the other knightly orders.
ScytheNoire Oct 8, 2008 at 11:02 am
+1 votes
I agree with you on all counts. The two Destruction classes can come back as planned. Choppa will be very popular and the Black Guard was my original class of choice, they look very menacing.
I also agree with your assessment of Orders two missing careers. The Slayer would be hugely popular and give a huge boost to Order numbers. Hell, I hate dorfs and would even considering rolling up one, just because they are awesome. The first Warhammer Fantasy role-playing book, from way, way back, had a Slayer on the cover, and it always stood out.
Also agree about the Empire knights. Order of the Blazing Sun always came off to me as the wrong choice. They don't look like knights, they look like some fancy pants fairy boys. Not exactly striking fear, or going to help bolster Orders numbers. They need an Empire tank that looks awesome and looks like a knight. No damn bright colored feathers on them.
I also agree with your assessment of Orders two missing careers. The Slayer would be hugely popular and give a huge boost to Order numbers. Hell, I hate dorfs and would even considering rolling up one, just because they are awesome. The first Warhammer Fantasy role-playing book, from way, way back, had a Slayer on the cover, and it always stood out.
Also agree about the Empire knights. Order of the Blazing Sun always came off to me as the wrong choice. They don't look like knights, they look like some fancy pants fairy boys. Not exactly striking fear, or going to help bolster Orders numbers. They need an Empire tank that looks awesome and looks like a knight. No damn bright colored feathers on them.
Hirokana Oct 8, 2008 at 11:11 am
+1 votes
Yeah Ulric Knights FTW!
Making Ulric Knights, and Slayer would contribute a bit for overall realm balance TBH. I mean a fierce and strength knight and a maniacal killer. If that's not cool then you won't play order anytime :P
Making Ulric Knights, and Slayer would contribute a bit for overall realm balance TBH. I mean a fierce and strength knight and a maniacal killer. If that's not cool then you won't play order anytime :P
Slurm Oct 8, 2008 at 11:47 am
+1 votes
If you look at the Warhammer fingures....all of the knight classes (major ones) have feathered helms, I think some of the Knights Panther have panther fur flowing from theirs sometimes, but usually still Feathers.
Given the devotion by the Knights Panther...I'd say they should have been the choice rather than the KOBS.
Given the devotion by the Knights Panther...I'd say they should have been the choice rather than the KOBS.
Greg Oct 8, 2008 at 11:55 am
+1 votes
I would kind of like to see them introduce Greatswords - though they may be a little too close to the Elven Swordmasters.
Gobsmacked Oct 8, 2008 at 12:08 pm
+1 votes
I'd have to go with the Knights Panther. Their fanatical opposition to Chaos makes them a good fit for the EvC pairing.
Brian Oct 8, 2008 at 12:08 pm
+1 votes
The Knights of the White Wolf are templars of Ulric - they guard the temples and holy places. While they would undoubtedly march to war, the friction between the Ulric worshippers and Sigmarites is high at the best of times. Still, they look cool.
The Reiksguard are interesting, but as you already pointed out, they are the personal bodyguard of the Emperor. It wouldn't make much sense to see them runing around on their own while there's a war going on.
Which leads me to the Knights Panther. I find this group to be the most compelling. They have a cool look, with pelts, furs, and skins adorning their heavy armor. As a bonus, they are crusaders again Chaos. I think the Kights Panther would be the most compelling choice of the three.
The Reiksguard are interesting, but as you already pointed out, they are the personal bodyguard of the Emperor. It wouldn't make much sense to see them runing around on their own while there's a war going on.
Which leads me to the Knights Panther. I find this group to be the most compelling. They have a cool look, with pelts, furs, and skins adorning their heavy armor. As a bonus, they are crusaders again Chaos. I think the Kights Panther would be the most compelling choice of the three.
Bregel Oct 8, 2008 at 12:52 pm
+1 votes
A slight tangent, and perhaps I'm in the minority, but I would be disappointed if Hammerers and Knights of the Blazing Sun didn't return as-is.
I was initially skeptical about the look of the Knights, to be sure. However, having finally seen them in-game (and let's face it, they're all over the place), I think they look fantastic. They start out as simple enough looking infantrymen with a plain breastplate, and transform over time into ornate, spectacular looking knights, covered with sun iconography and looking every inch the solid tank you'd want on your side.
I don't see Mythic tossing out all those art assets and starting over from scratch with new, panther or wolf themed armors.
As for slayers, I simply can not understand why anyone would want these as the fourth playable dwarf class. And my problem isn't "Oh, boo hoo, they don't work because they're pledged to die and you can't die in an MMO". My thematic problem is that they're supposed to be rare. These aren't representatives of the dwarf race, these are aberrations in dwarf society, so when you see one you should immediately be struck by the sight. Given that most people's memorably introduction to dwarfs won't be the horribly written Grudgebearer, but will instead be the very well written Gotrek series, it is not difficult to see the population of dwarfs suddenly becoming 90% red crested morons demanding that Mythic add Grimnir's axe as a loot drop. And, there's the problem of equipment. Slayers pretty much wear pants, and that's it. Sure, you might be able to say runic tattoos could be added to equipment slots as other armor, but how do you then explain how they change when you swap gear? And with that kind of effort in mind, you're looking at at least another year just to design the art assets for the equipment, not to mention statting it. And then there's the class mechanics.
No, I'd say if you want to see an Empire tank and a Dwarf DPS class, particularly if you want to see them before the first boxed expansion, it would be best to keep your eyes on the KotBS and Hammerer.
I was initially skeptical about the look of the Knights, to be sure. However, having finally seen them in-game (and let's face it, they're all over the place), I think they look fantastic. They start out as simple enough looking infantrymen with a plain breastplate, and transform over time into ornate, spectacular looking knights, covered with sun iconography and looking every inch the solid tank you'd want on your side.
I don't see Mythic tossing out all those art assets and starting over from scratch with new, panther or wolf themed armors.
As for slayers, I simply can not understand why anyone would want these as the fourth playable dwarf class. And my problem isn't "Oh, boo hoo, they don't work because they're pledged to die and you can't die in an MMO". My thematic problem is that they're supposed to be rare. These aren't representatives of the dwarf race, these are aberrations in dwarf society, so when you see one you should immediately be struck by the sight. Given that most people's memorably introduction to dwarfs won't be the horribly written Grudgebearer, but will instead be the very well written Gotrek series, it is not difficult to see the population of dwarfs suddenly becoming 90% red crested morons demanding that Mythic add Grimnir's axe as a loot drop. And, there's the problem of equipment. Slayers pretty much wear pants, and that's it. Sure, you might be able to say runic tattoos could be added to equipment slots as other armor, but how do you then explain how they change when you swap gear? And with that kind of effort in mind, you're looking at at least another year just to design the art assets for the equipment, not to mention statting it. And then there's the class mechanics.
No, I'd say if you want to see an Empire tank and a Dwarf DPS class, particularly if you want to see them before the first boxed expansion, it would be best to keep your eyes on the KotBS and Hammerer.
tenfoldhate Oct 8, 2008 at 1:19 pm
+1 votes
I suppose I'm the only tool who actually likes the Knights of the Blazing Sun. I find something comically endearing (in that unique Warhammer way) about having tanks who look like fruity conquistadors who bludgeoned a peacock and incorporated it's feathers into their armor. Kind of reminds me of Michael Palin in "Holy Grail."
That said, I already rolled a Swordmaster which much to my chagrin, I'm liking a heck of a lot, so when the new "old" classes are reintroduced, I probably wouldn't be rolling another tank anyways.
That said, I already rolled a Swordmaster which much to my chagrin, I'm liking a heck of a lot, so when the new "old" classes are reintroduced, I probably wouldn't be rolling another tank anyways.
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