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by Syp, Level 43
Last updated at October 1, 2008, 1:32 pm
We all knew from the beginning that building a RvR-centric MMO was going to be a tremendous challenge for Mythic, especially as they expanded the scope from Dark Age of Camelot to the sheer size of Warhammer Online's RvR playgrounds. Yet the greatest fear, from the early days of beta to the post-launch days of now, was that this whole premise would rise or fall based on one simple factor: population balance.

Sure, Mythic could do all they could to stack the odds in their favor: instanced (and balanced) scenarios, mirroring career mechanics between the two factions, capping servers to encourage balanced populations, and trying to make the case that either faction was worth the time of the player. They knew that statistically, MMO players tend to go for the "good" faction, and therefore gave Destruction more publicity and some of the coolest-looking classes in the game (while Mythic might claim that they didn't engage in favoritism between the factions, the fact is that that is the impression they gave as Destruction -- and Greenskin in particular -- got the bigger slice of the publicity pie prior to the game launch). But they can't control human nature or strong-arm players into playing a race or career or faction that doesn't interest them.

And now, post-launch, Destruction is the majority favorite of players. I have to eat my hat for being (initially, at least) wrong in this regard: I assumed that once we got more casuals in the game than hardcores, the balance would shift to Order's favor. So far, that's not happening.

Right now it's not a massive issue, for the most part. Annoyances such as longer scenario queue times for Destruction, or larger login queues for certain servers/factions are grimaced at, then accepted. Most RvR in the first month is taking place in scenarios, not in the open world RvR or with keep/fortress/capital city sieges, where the population imbalance isn't felt as hard. But this looks to change, and fairly soon, as the T4 population grows and the lesson that size -- or perhaps quantity -- does matter. People are nervous and fearful that the end game simply won't be fun when they get there, if it's such a lopsided battle (even Destruction players are saying this), and nobody wants to see an early exodus before the kinks are worked out.

A couple dev quotes to chew on for now:
"All throughout Beta we saw a disproportionate popularity on the Destruction side. We know from previous games we've worked on, the good guys tend to be significantly more popular. Everyone wants to save the princess and have shiny armor. Even though we don't offer any princess saving in our game, we knew that the good guys were going to wind up generally more popular in the long term.

What we're seeing now is that people looked at server populations on launch day and made a choice. "Oh, I've heard bad guys are really popular, I want to be on the side that's most popular." They chose Destruction characters initially." ~ Josh Drescher

"Our first really 'major' patch isn't for a while, you'll start seeing information and updates on what that will contain as we get closer to its release. For now we intend to continue addressing what we can as we work on nailing down as many remaining problems as possible." ~ James Nichols

Josh represents the "Order will eventually attract more (casual) players than Destruction" camp, which will be proven right or wrong with time.  James informs us that any substantial patch, potentially with additional classes or solutions for the population imbalance, is a ways off.

So with this uneven mixture brewing, I want to pose the question: how can Mythic entice players over to Order, at least to the point where it's more or less evenly balanced between the two factions?  Maybe it's not even possible, but here are my answers:

  1. We've said this before, but we'll say it again: Order needs the two cut classes back, stat.  They need a viable Empire tank that looks just as cool as Black Orcs/Chosen -- but in their own way -- that will attract more players to Order who are looking to tank but don't like the look or feel of Ironbreakers/Swordmasters.  And: Slayers, Slayers, Slayers.  I won't stop this chant.  It's an incredibly popular class in Warhammer, it fits the mold of dwarf melee DPS, and it would give Order players another "whoa" class to combat Destruction's myriad bad boys.

  2. Make sure that Order doesn't have any gimped classes.  This is true for both sides, but every career that players perceive is less-than-useful on the Order side are more players who are looking for fun elsewhere.

  3. Give players an incentive to roll the underpopulated faction on a particular server (which is probably Order).  Let's say that if a server population is about 5-10%+ unbalanced for a certain period of time, then the underpopulated side would receive a fun, usable goody (like a resurrection scroll that you could use three times in combat to rez yourself).  Never underestimate the power of freebies!

  4. Promote and advertise Order just as much as Destruction.  Maybe Mythic thinks they're already doing this, but they really need to up the profile of Order, particularly as tough-as-nails "good" guys instead of the goody-two-shoes in comparison with the baby murderers of Destruction.


What say you?
     
44 comments
Hudson Oct 1, 2008 at 1:45 pm
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I can say this:

I dont like ANY of the tank mechanics on the ORDER side, to me the Chosen is the best straight up old school tank and therefore that is why I am on Destro right now.

So you are right about that.
Scarybooster Oct 1, 2008 at 1:55 pm
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I agree, a rippling muscle bound tank with huge flashy armor needs to go on Order. Order tanks just look stupid. The Slayer was the key in the first trailer over a year ago. The key to getting the Slayer in the game is to help Mythic figure out a way to keep his lore from the IP (loner that doesn't like grouping) and find a way to fit him in a social based game. How would the Slayer work on an RP server? How do you justify grouping with other? How would you be in a guild? Mythic broke the rules making a DoK, why can't they fudge the Slayer a bit? Call him something different but give him the mechanics of a Slayer... and bring back Da' Choppa!

They conclusion is: Order looks like wimps
moxie Oct 1, 2008 at 1:56 pm
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I'm with you on the Slayers chant. Slayers rock, I love the Slayer NPCs I see in-game. I'm not a big fan of Knights personally, but there DOES need to be an intimidating tank class on the Order side.

The other thing I would suggest is working on the High Elf graphics. I realise that things have to be done within the IP framework, but there's got to be some way to give them more "oomph". They seem wimpy and somewhat lacking in personality right now.
Bregel Oct 1, 2008 at 2:05 pm
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You're definitely right about Order needing some PR. Through the entire development cycle, all we heard from the vocal folks at Mythic was how cool the Destruction side was, and how prissy pansy Order was. Even the original cinematic had the only loss be on the part of Order.

Even the locales you visit on either side make a statement. The Tower of Hoeth? The Slayer's Keep? The actual port and stronghold of Barak Var? These could have been unique and lore filled places to fight over, but they aren't. They're Destruction only PQs to be farmed.

Order, on the other hand...nothing famous comes to mind.

These things all send a message to the playerbase about where they should be playing. "If you want to be cool, play Destruction. If you want to win, play Destruction. If you want to see the famous sites of the world, play Destruction. If you want to be 'less', and be stuck out in the hinterlands instead of protecting the places important to you, play Order."

(I'm not even going to start on perceived imbalance with DoK and Chosen.)

Having said all that, I'm Order and Dwarf for life.
KovaaK Oct 1, 2008 at 2:09 pm
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Maybe I'm in the minority, but when I initially looked over classes in this game (which was a few hours before I picked it up on launch day), I wasn't particularly interested in the Destruction side of tanks. I said to myself "If my friends were playing on the Order side, I would consider either an Ironbreaker or a Warrior Priest." In retrospect, if I had known how good Black Orcs appear to be, I probably would have added them to the viable tanks list, but I still have little interest in playing a Chosen :P.

I'm not sure how much the developers can really do in terms of advertising to affect whether players go to one side or the other. It seems more like when a group of players decides to play, they pick out some "it would be really awesome to play this" classes, and collaborate.

The better solution is (and likely will be) freebies of some sort. I was half expecting you to endorse an experience bonus to the Order side for underpopulated servers, but I can imagine many people complaining about that. On the other hand, if a main problem caused by underpopulation is not have enough Order at T4, a temporary experience bonus to the Order side would help those who are already on their way to T4, and it would encourage newer players to start out there until things balance out. Feel free to bash me for suggesting such an imbalanced idea, but is it really so bad?
moxie Oct 1, 2008 at 2:24 pm
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The Slayer mechanic would actually be workable. The Slayer's purpose is to die in battle, right? Let him be a berzerker that gets more and more powerful the lower his hitpoints get, thus encouraging players to "live on the edge" of life and death. Slayers have also been known to group, look at Gotrek. He and Felix were adventuring with various groups most of the time.
slipmat Oct 1, 2008 at 2:37 pm
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I started Destruction because I thought they would be the underdogs. I played Horde because they usually were the underdogs in WoW.

I have made the switch to Order because they are the underdogs and I love it!

I have a level 20 Warrior Priest (named slipmat) and the scenarios I have been playing Order clearly dominates winning 80% of the time. People listen understand and play as a team.

Destruction is a bunch of loose cannons and children! hahaha The organization and comradery is absent and I am proud to be apart of Order.

That's my two cents, I don't mind 60/40 split between the two, maybe I will at end game but that is a while off and based on the scenarios Order doesn't have too much to worry about once they organize.

-s
Chielan Oct 1, 2008 at 2:42 pm
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The population imbalance was initially terrible on Brettonica until recently. We're at the point now where we can take a keep any time we want. We actually even got a T3 keep off of them. The drawback though is that after we all log for the night the keep always goes back to Destro. My main point is that you just have to set your expectations up a little differently than a Destro player. Any time we zerg in and overwhelm destruction, or hold them off for hours while they can do nothing, I believe that has to be more fulfilling than anything they do.
Wizards & Wenches » Altdorf under attack Oct 1, 2008 at 2:57 pm
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[...] Destruction is burning their way across all servers, Syp is calling from reinforcements to Order, and I think I will join them. If I was a animal in my last life, I probably was a salmon. [...]
Huffledoom Thunderpants Oct 1, 2008 at 2:58 pm
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I agree, Order needs a polishing pass to buff the awesome-factor. And we need a bad-ass tank to encourage people to roll them. I do like being on the underpopulated side, though. Every time we take a keep it feels like it was an epic struggle straight out of the end of Return of the King. Orcs all the way to the horizon... thousands of them. And our little band of 24 took the keep from them!
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